This bit: “That, I think, is why my words wouldn’t come this week. And why other women I know have struggled too.” I don’t think men understand where women are right now. After Gisele Pelicot, then the Italian case, now this. It’s become undeniable: men view us as orifices or irrelevant. We’re in a profoundly dark place, whereas they are carrying on as if it’s just another news story.
Agree wholeheartedly! My well informed (at least, I always thought!) husband cannot figure out why I take this so seriously. It’s because it’s a result of a society that sexualizes girls, women, and when they are no longer sexually appealing, dismisses them.
As a husband I find myself in the same situation you describe. This topic has angered my wife for a long time and as much as I try to “put myself in the other person’s shoes” I don’t think it is possible to completely realize those emotions. As my wife says you can’t fully understand if you haven’t grown up as a woman. I think it is the same for black Americans for example as whites don't understand the systemic hurdles and prejudices faced when you don’t live it 24/7/365. And I absolutely cannot fathom why so many women seem to almost volunteer for this, from child models (as in Carol’s story) all the way up to our Trump enabling politicians. What I do think I can 100% comprehend though is the sick reaction of “dominant” groups when their oppression comes to light. The backlash to Black Lives Matter post George Floyd, hatred of Colin Kaepernick kneeling, and now the demonization of immigrants etc shows how many people won’t even attempt to see another side of an issue (and by no means is paedophelia and objectification of women just an “issue”). If any small shred of good can result from the entire Epstein revelations it will hopefully be exposing this as the portion of instinctual male behavior that it is so we can start moving towards unacceptability with regard to marginalizing and exploiting women.
It's not instinctual though. It's societal conditioning and programming coded into entertainment, information, advertising, etc. Think about the fact that men refer to their boats, cars, guitars, etc as feminine. Men benefit most from this objectification.
Back when the slaves got the right to vote a woman abolitionist asked Frederick Douglass if he'd support women's right to vote and he told that woman that women would have to wait their turn.
Think about medical treatment. A man's erectile dysfunction medication before women's heart medication, cancer treatment, and many other conditions. If a white man complains about something hurting him, he's believed more than a woman or any person of color. It all comes back to "the importance of being male" rather than being human or a living being that needs help.
Medical treatment and education are getting gutted in the United States because those would improve things for everybody instead of just white men because white men somehow have to benefit the most at the cost of everybody else to maintain white men's pleasure and control.
Yes, and even white men are arranged in a hierarchy of power. The first beneficiaries are the rich (white) men (alpha parasites as someone called them) at the top. It's a complex hierarchy in which everyone must submit to abuse from those above and may abuse those below. Women's place in the hierarchy is determined by the men they 'belong' to. The whole point is to climb the hierarchy. That may be a simplification but it makes more sense than framing it as men vs women or white vs black. And think about how children (and animals) fit into this. Because there's even worse than paedophilia (framed here as 'desire' for children.) Pleasure? There's also a desire or compulsion to hurt, and worse.
‘so many women seem to volunteer for this’ - if you honestly mean that you are part of the problem, but I thought you might be anyway from your first couple of sentences. Don’t you understand what power is? Can’t you understand the myriad ways it manifests in our societies, right from subtly almost not there to the blatantly unmissably obvious? Virginia Guiffre was raped by her father (and one of his friends) from early childhood; her father then worked for and introduced her to Epstein. When children are abused so systematically, how can they ever react in normal ways? How can they ever grow into self determined women free to make independent choices? There is nothing complicated here. There is nothing to understand, except that men are in power and that power corrupts, thoroughly and deeply.
just like underage teens can't "consent" women don't "volunteer" even young teen girls for being oogled observed oppressed into uncomfortable acceptance coz that's what they want you to do . . . back to 'is my skirt too short' days and "teach your daughters how not to get raped" rather than "teach your fkn sons not to rape women' respect and rights days all over again
Not remotely “blaming women” but there sure are a good number of enablers in the current administration. It is hard to comprehend any woman supporting Trump and the broligarchy with what is in those files and e-mails and the overall misogynistic climate we are in.
It’s really hard to explain. When I was young at my first office job, I tried so hard to look sophisticated and cool. I was played by a lot of older men who sensed it right away and hovered in. Their “flirtation” was oppressive and scary, but when I backed-off I was called cold, fridgid, a lesbian. I was just trying to fit it, and it hurt. I had the fortitude to get out of there and start new, much wiser. I can easily imagine a girl with dreams of fame and fortune being drawn-in totally. These men throw challenges at you to test how tough you are, and say things like “if you can’t handle this, you’ll never handle the big time”. When you’re naive but ambitious, you’re fodder. Don’t forget as well that Maxwell was able to sniff-out the most vulnerable girls from broken homes, needy, looking for affection. Easy marks.
100%. Young girls are still very naive and can think the flattery is genuine. Been there a long time ago. Especially vulnerable without the healthy, supportive, protective love of a good father.
Because some women think that it is better to sit at the right hand of a dangerous man rather than suffer the same abuse as his targets....even if it means they offer up their daughters to him. Pure fully and a delay of the inevitable for them.
i think people dramatically underestimate the role of drugs in all this. the sex island had a drug menu with a price list for a reason -- more than a few people in these circles are brutally addicted to drugs. it may, in fact, be most.
because they are a bit smarter than your everyday drug addict, and have more resources, they often check themselves into rehab -- but only to "detox," or take a "t-break." they aren't really trying to quit -- just trying to balance their desire to ride high with their desire to live forever.
musk, thiel, epstein -- the extent of their drug addictions is widely known. when you consider them this way, it explains a lot of their behavior. this is perhaps impolitic to say, but drug addicts get up to a lot of crazy shiet, and the more money they have, the crazier they get. no one in their right mind would think that having seventeen children by thirteen women like musk has would go well -- it's a drug addict's power fantasy, again combined with that immortality thing. no one in their right mind would think inviting this many people to a teen sex island would be perfectly dandy forever -- that's a drug addict's invulnerability delusion. because he had money, he was less delusional than your average meth user in terms of his invulnerability, but he was still delusional. and when they put him in jail, with no drugs, the withdrawal was searing. if you doubt that he killed himself, ask a heavy drug user what cold-turkey withdrawal feels like.
the reason i say all this to you is, the drug factor also explains, i suspect, much of the cooperation from women. it's a classic blaxploitation trope for the pusher kingpin to have a stunning babe by his side, who he makes do shameful things for another hit. epstein was the same kind of pusher pimp, addicted to stimulants himself while giving out free samples of drugs to young women. and those young women -- unlike young women in a bad neighborhood -- wouldn't have any clue where to get more, other than through him. and they would have no choice but to do whatever he wanted.
he wouldn't have to be as crude as offering them a pill either -- he could have just said he had a secret energy drink that only he could get. in reality, it's a pinch of meth and a pinch of rohypnol in a red bull. the young woman finds herself doing things for him she never imagined that very day -- not knowing that she isn't herself. and then she wants more. she doesn't know she's been hooked on a drug. she just thinks being around epstein feels amazing. and he keeps that magic drink coming, he makes it stronger, he asks for more. worse. now that young woman has done things she doesn't want her family to know about. now she's his.
i can more or less guarantee you that that's about exactly how it went down. and i'm sure i haven't even plumbed close to the depths of the sick fuck shit the bastard did to lure people in.
aside from the withdrawal, i think epstein killed himself because he knew he'd done things people would have him drawn and quartered for. flayed alive perhaps. listen to becca balint when she says "sick fucks" -- there was far worse going on than just plain sex with teens, that i can about guarantee you. this is far from over, and the worst is yet to come. scratch that -- we may never know the worst. the worst might've died with epstein, since the young women he did the worst to probably wouldn't remember a thing, unconscious or roofied as they wouldve been. but there's worse yet to come, of that i am certain.
Some women are so buried by patriarchy that they are not on their own side. To stay safe as a woman within conservative circles, the only way is to align yourself with male goals. You can see the way GOP women deform their faces with surgery and fillers: this is to demonstrate their obedience and submission to male porn-star ideals. They must atone for the sin of being politically powerful by overstating their subservience with hair extensions and filler-face. Other women become perfect wives and mothers to demonstrate their submission. They don’t realise that no matter how far they debase themselves or sell themselves out, patriarchy will never protect them. I guess they feel they have no other choice. I wonder about Ghislaine Maxwell’s choices to fetch and serve up for Jeffrey every single little girl his twisted heart desired, and run his household affairs for him to boot. What motivated her? Did she deeply believe that her role in life, and the role of every other woman and girl on the planet, was to serve men?
You’ve proven you’re a male not at all unlike the ones you feign to be baffled by. You “cannot fathom why so many women seem to almost volunteers for this…” Seriously. Get out. Take a woman studies 101 class. No one is volunteering for any of this. They’re innocent and trusting and that’s exactly what appeals to these wolves. Mature women scare them because we are no longer innocent or trusting, rather we see right through them.
As well as being sexualised, young girls are often attributed with adult thinking that they aren’t yet capable of. For example, men often believe little girls or teenagers are acting sexually or alluring on purpose, and accuse them of being a “vixen” or a “tease” when she really has almost no idea what sexual behaviour even is. Men’s thinking about girls is so fked up that they can’t seem to grasp that someone of 14 has zero concept of what is going on in an adult man’s head.
Re: "And I absolutely cannot fathom why so many women seem to almost volunteer for this," This statement tells me how uninformed you are about a very sensitive subject. Do learn more, please.
boundaries! and humanity. and respecting women's bodies and beings and existences. doesn't help when the abuser in chief leader of the "free world" proudly publicly ok's "grabbing them by the pussy" . . . devolving rapidly on the women's rights and respect these days. even older women, reproductive rights entitlement n control . . . and we fought so hard just to get "is my skirt too short?" understood sigh. . . . #evervigilant
Just the fact that you can’t shop for women’s clothes online without seeing 14-year-old girls modelling them, always sexualised, often with their legs spread, vacant eyes and mouths open. I call that one the blow-up-doll pose. They have had to wipe all personality from their faces and just offer up their orifices 🤮 I’m thinking of boycotting any fashion label that uses teenagers to model clothes for adult women. It's one of these things we have always accepted as normal but post-Epstein it has occurred to me that it is nothing short of mainstream paedolphilia.
The problem is sadism and psychopathy enabled by a sick society. People don’t want to see what’s right in front of them. They willingly accept excuses, narratives, and lies.
We are living in a sick society vulnerable to exploitation by the most brazen predators. Children, not just girls, are at risk. The predatory classes know how to spot them and reel them into their world.
Most people are not so sick. Now that we know the problem, we must acknowledge the harm and punish the perpetrators. We must demand justice.
Not all men, I certainly do not view women as vassals or objects nor do my friends. This disease is predominantly white rich men and more so Jewish white men.
I am always instantly wary of any man who claims ‘not all men’. To be defensive, rather than listening, demonstrates a lack of understanding at best. How do women know you are ‘not all men’? What do you do to tackle these attitudes when other men display them? If you truly believe you are walking around in a world of ‘not all men’ you have your eyes closed or are incredibly naive. And don’t get me started on your anti semitism……
I recently got into a similar discussion with a man on Julie K. Brown's Substack, who tried to "both sides" the issue of male sexual predators. When I presented him with the numbers and a reliable source, i.e., that something like 97% of those convicted of sex crimes are men and asked him where he got facts to support his claim, he said he would not continue the discussion because I was not debating him in "good faith" and it "disrespected" the subject matter at hand!! I'm still hopping mad at virtue signaling, clueless men like that.
But enough men that, until it's no men, we must assume all men for our own safety.
The next time you're out with the guys and you hear some sexist "joke"? Maybe you step up and say "hey, you know what that's not cool. Misogyny isn't funny."
Maybe after a generation or two it'll be enough for us to not have to assume "all men".
But you see the big problem's here: you're not listening. You're running your mouth off.
When women are speaking about our collective experience, we don't need (or want) you stepping in. This is a really good time for you to shut up and listen. Internalize what we're saying. And then you can be a real ally.
After you lose the anti-Semitism too. Scratch the surface and I wonder what else we'd find?
Very good point about men stepping up and challenging inappropriate behavior in other men when they are together. That would go a long long way. As I type this I am reminded how men will stand around in places and make comments about women. If one of them spoke up and said, "Knock it off," there would be an effect that would spread among them. The standing around part reminds me of that picture of Trump and Epstein looking at girls and Trump acting like a moron as he speaks to Epstein with his stupid dorky junior high smiley face. Ugh!
Not all men may not consciously view women as vassals or objects, but all men do live in a world that is unavailable to all women and it is this world that leads to the conscious and subconscious objectification of both young and older women. As a woman, and now as an older woman, it has taken me years to see that all men simply inhabit a space I can never enter, have never been able to enter, and never will. The core of this world is the freedom to be. Men are free to be men in a world that values and respects them because they are men and women never truly have this freedom. All men live in this world and most men are unaware of it. Rich and powerful men exploit it but all men experience it, even if to themselves they say they are different and not like other men. I have known many "nice men" who would immediately say they are "not all men" but every single one of them have, at one time or another expected, often without awareness, that I adjust my freedom to be me and instead be what they want, who they want, and when they want, and when I don't they are offended, insulted, and often the relationship ends. All women are taught from an early age that there is a cost to being freely themselves, so most women adjust. It is, as this post points out, part of the culture. A culture which has been and continues to be created for the freedom of men.
The Giselle Pelicot case taught us we haven’t been thinking big enough. There were scores of men from the same small French town willing to rape an unconscious woman. Hundreds more knew about it but said nothing. All were complicit in it continuing.
Please, let’s not be gullible so as to fall into antisemitism… this is inherent in all Abrahamic religions… particularly those of orthodox or fundamentalist bent… & the includes the “mainstream” well meaning varieties as well … white Cristian fundamentalists - of both Catholic & Protestant backgrounds, white nationalists, ALL of Islam (it is distinguished in their Quran, as well as in Hindi, and any other patriarchal based religions… it is simple the mind virus of patriarchy, particularly spread by white European cristian based imperialists since the monotheistic Cristian church formed & evolved into & identified as the Catholic Church. It is in their Old Testament and reinforced, party the apostle Paul in the New testament. They have been the universal method for enforcing patriarchy in the western world. As for “the East” - they had their own particularly crude Abrahamic version of Islam. Possibly even worse than Christianity based on the commands & requirements, directly as stated in their holy book, the Quran… and if you don’t follow it, you can be put to death.
It’s not particularly Jewish men … but the foundations of patriarchy are encoded in their holy book & other “versions” of it went even further. But it was white Northern European culture that codified it throughout our western world. And Islam throughout the East.
Many years ago, in my 20s, I was people watching with a man was dating. He mused, “I wonder why, when they get old, women get ugly, but men become distinguished.” He honestly thought he was asking about how the world was, rather than giving me a window into who he was. We didn’t date for long.
Exhausting and sickening. Shocked responses to the Epstein revelations focus on "Powerful, rich men". This narrows the field of vision. My view us that it is most men as evidenced in the 2014 police report of VaWG, violence against women and girls crimes 2018 to 2022. 0e woman every 3 days is killed by a man in UK and VaWG crimes increased by37% 2028 to 2022.
I believe online pornography is encouraging particularly young men to view women as sexual objects, pornography is demeaning women especially young women and girls. Whenever I ask why is pornography allowed to be on line?it cant be stopped, people make money from it.!
Funny thing, the older I get the more I see it in all men, including my large hippy kind hearted friends and family and neighbors who are men, I still see the dynamics in play. It’s like being white, you can’t not be a white person with all the central privileges in a world that makes way for the white person.
But you can be an ally. It’s work and it’s a choice.
I’m white (my icon is a favourite painting by my daughter). Everyday brings new lessons highlighting my privilege - which is only worth having if I can use it to help amplify & protect the voices of others…
I hope I live to see the day when everyone has been lifted to the heights of respect currently guarded by, promoted, enforced, and afforded to the wealthy & the powerful & the white & the mainstream conventional attractive, etc..
I’m working towards the era when all the overt & subliminal benefits of privilege are distributed and experienced universally rendering it nullified.
To me, it’s not about a race to the bottom & reducing standards to the lowest common denominator - it’s about a rising tide lifting all boats🛶⛵️🚤
So far w/in about 2 months I’ve encountered 4 men/male accounts on Substack who have clearly made the choice to be allies to women. That’s pretty good! 🥰
But I’ve lost track of how many I have blocked &/or reported for hate (racist, homophobic, & mysogynist), which is not unexpected 🥺
Enough to say most. Enough to be wary of all. Enough that ALL men ought to have to observe curfews and ought to be accompagnied by at least two adult female chaperones whenever they leave the house.
Every time I talk about sexual assault there’s always a guy trying to claim that it’s just a minority who does this stuff. Yet every woman has a story. That was literally why it was called ‘MeToo’: because EVERY FUCKING WOMAN HAS A STORY. So maybe you didn’t do it, didn’t by some miracle see it, but don’t diminish the claims of those sharing their stories of pain by claiming that it’s only a few. Think instead about why that is your first impulse.
Yeah most of us don’t because our moms didn’t explain what behaviors of men aren’t ok and what qualities to look for, what qualities to run like hell from, how to handle a conversation with a flattering or controlling manipulator at a party or on the phone or at work or at school. To not go too fast in a relationship, to know the difference between infatuation and deep love, and on and on and on. We DO have to educate our girls and describe the uncomfortable without scaring the holy shit out of them.
If a man wants to hide his dark side, he’s gonna hide it. It’s not up to the person that it’s hidden from to suss it out constantly…all the time. It’s better to default to assumption for one’s own safety.
My dad used to say, "I know what teenage boys are like because I was one once." But he used that reasoning to justify not letting me do things, not to teach me how to protect myself. So I would argue back, "If you don't let me do things till I get older, then all the boys will be more experienced than I am when you finally can't say no any more, and I'll be at an even greater disadvantage." That, and my mom, finally convinced him to let me go out.
You can think you’re dealing with a decent guy, but a decent guy is self proclaimed. If you dig a little deeper, he’s got a porn addiction or gaming addiction or he’s got an entitlement issue or he’s a martyr or something. I don’t think men aspire to the same things women do.
The important truth is that we only have control over ourselves. Codependency among women is a global scourge just as is patriarchy. It’s a lot of work to cleanse ourselves of enabling behavior as women but the more we do the more powerful we become. Growing ourselves, claiming control and responsibility for planetary resources, paying close attention to how we raise our children, stepping into our power and leadership and on and on. Paying attention to how we negotiate and resolve each conflict from the intimate to the global. The patriarchal world culture forms womens’ walk-away alternatives to every dispute. We need to and can change this. Please read my new book Collaborative Hardball: Using the Power of a New Negotiation as Women to Change the World, www.susancoleman.global/book
yep, lots of "decent guys" who deny its happening because they haven't raped someone....but they ALL know men who have raped or assaulted someone and said NOTHING. Decent guys abound....and maintain "decency" in the name of patriarchy by not rocking the boat.
Exactly. Show me a guy. Just come up with a guy who is making any meaningful difference for women with the power of being a white dude who under the right kind and amount of pressure toward extracting a sacrifice of ANYTHING will crack and find a rationalization and snow you just enough to keep the halo glowing… in the end their secrets are the typical ones of depraved men.
I can appreciate that! I’ve given this tie thought: patriarchy is a system and this is what it looks like… power and entitlement and getting away with depraved behaviors, corruption, all the things… I won’t let the good people get divided as you say but I still see the operative thread of patriarchy… I see it in women too, those who are frozen and cannot step outside the traumatic male gaze that traps them to deny reality…what is our unconscious and conscious relationship with the systemic patriarchy in every drop of water we drink? Add white, add wealth, add power. This is the cocktail of patriarchy right now in all things happening.
If your takeaway from the news of huge numbers of men raping and destroying the lives of women and children is to centre yourself, you should think about why that is.
In consequence I don’t have to think about why that is.
Please assume that I have no regrets to be woke. That might be uncool, but I just like ad rem debates where people focus on facts. Admittedly, that’s not easy in today’s toxic discussion culture.
Your comment though, just two words, is not debate or discussion, it's clickbait, designed to create upset amongst readers, to get attention, I suppose. Carole will have been very diligent with facts. To assume that a married woman is suggesting it's all men is ridiculous. I am married to a wonderful man. And yet I know he does not always call out other men's misogyny. We can't do it without the good men, change this society. So if you are one of the good ones, which I believe you probably are, just listen and try to help. As a man you cannot understand the fear that women live with, but you can listen. I know that men also have to deal with fear of these men, and I think that's why the good men don't always call out misogyny. But please be brave, and try to do that sometimes instead.
Of course not ALL men……..and I think we must keep some sane perspective on this. Carole is brilliant, she is so right on so many issues, and her research on Russian connections to Brexit and Trump’s unbelievable double election wins reveal how Putin’s ‘War on the West’ continues to use power-hungry men to shape our world. But please, Carole, let’s not turn this whole thing into a feminist ‘battle of the sexes’………..(and maybe women need to reflect a little bit on why they are subjecting themselves to risky surgical procedures etc in order to appeal to men?)
Your last sentence ... it's called patriarchy! Women are subjected to messages that tell them how they have to look, and behave, from infancy. No man can ever truly feel that. I do appreciate the few who do their best to educate themselves, though. And, I mean the ones who put in the emotional labour to do that and don't expect women to do that for them.
Don’t you think all MEN are also conditioned from infancy as well……….I do accept that both genders are, and it’s often not in a good way. Children in general need to receive love and nurturing throughout their childhood, especially in the early years……..this all helps them to give love and nurturing to others, and to feel a sense of their own value and self esteem. BUT sadly, not many children, boys or girls, do receive what they need to flourish. And the current drive to get women back to the workplace, and children into ‘childcare settings’, ASAP after giving birth, exacerbates this sad situation. Sad for children, that is, and the insecure adults they often become.
Of course, men are also conditioned from infancy. It is a patriarchal system that requires both men, and women, to fulfil pre-ordained roles for it to operate effectively. My husband and I both worked and our children attended childcare. We gave them love and attention, good nutrition, helped them to build good values, taught them to cook and other life skills. They are independent, in their mid and late twenties and have good relationships with their partners and friends. It was a battle to fight the patriarchal norms to help them become well rounded men who respect other people's rights, particularly here in 'blokey' Australia. Women have internalised misogyny and we need to constantly examine and challenge it. When a woman says "what about men" it might be an indication of such internalised misogyny. Men need to be accountable for their thoughts and behaviours and, do their own work.
Putin would've been a fool to NOT fund trans ideology.. to whittle away faith in institutions and eride democracy and feminism.. and particularly good to buy the Democrats. Then tell repubs to keep quiet til right before the election.. 2 weeks prior, boom! Got his guy in office.
Holy shit Barbara. Seems like you're missing some big points. Women are conditioned to perform beauty rituals that please men. Do you think those fluttering caterpillar eyelashes are for the attraction of other women? No. It's the same thing as big red lips...a signal of youthful , dewy, fresh innocence. Not a lot of older women wearing these....young women do it because they think its what men want to see. You and Margaret sound like the proverbial fish that don't see the water they're swimming in.
Oh DUH Heather. Yes I just fell off the back of the turnip truck. Thanks for the brand new to me explanation of why women make themselves look ridiculous as well as damage their bodies or health. Because in 81 years on this planet I hadn’t noticed that or done stupid stuff myself. Where would we be without people like you to explain the hard stuff? So grateful for your insightful comment. Maybe it’s you who are missing some points - plural. Cheesus.
Have you ever thought about why those eyelashes look so silly? It's because they look unnatural and that makes them look, well, a bit desperate. But, newsflash, they are desperate! They have such limited opportunities for power, this is how they are trying to secure resources. You'd do better to pity them mock them, but better still just keep your eyes on who is actually the enemy here.
Of course not all men. But Epstein clearly used men's weakness for them to gain power. And young women and girls were easier to control. So he encouraged it. That's why he's collected all this files. To control others. And I suspect many men who claim they wouldn't, would be tempted if it was offered on a plate. And many men will have looked at teen porn without considering age checking. If you looked at Sam Fox on p3, that is child porn. She was there for the first time on her 16th birthday. So they must have taken that picture when she was 15. I don't know how any copies it sold but it will be thousands.
All people have been brainwashed into patriarchal thinking and white supremacist thinking. ALL of us. Women, people of color, ALL. The difference is when you see this, own it, and refuse it.
You mean the enablers, the ones who deflect, the ones who look the other way, the ones who change the subject, the ones who hold everyone else accountable and the ones who center themselves?
Is this really just a male or rich men problem? Could they have been able to pull this off WITHOUT the women (water-bearers such as Ghislaine and others) who helped them by enticing, deceiving and procuring these girls for these predators? Ignoring the role of these Trojan horses and traitors is hypocritical and won't help us one bit in trying to understand how Evil operates in this world viz. through willing accomplices.
Genuine question, as I’m puzzled. If women don’t want to be seen as toys or sex objects, why do they so often treat themselves in that way……..as painted, plastic surgery, Barbie dolls? Is it to please men? Are they conditioned to do so? I have no idea, but they’re definitely playing the same games.
Thank you for putting it into perspective. What scares me the most is how long all this Epstein information was known and how little has happened by way of prosecution.
Something like 10 countries have opened investigations based on the released information.
The US is not one of them. Could it be that we have the most intertwined-with-jeff state and federal governments? (Who was it who protected jeff in FL? Just Pam Bondi?) It seems unlikely we hate women and children more than those other countries, when patriarchy / misogyny is just as pervasive in them as they are here.
The evidence is quite hefty on the USA being one of the most misogynistic countries in the West. They cannot bring themselves to vote a woman to the presidency, even though they have voted a black man in twice, for all the angst and energy poured into the idea that America is racist (and I’m not saying that is wrong). The US is the global centre of the porn industry - and rather horrifically the sexual torture of women is protected as *free speech* ffs. The misogynistic trans “rights” movement is turbo charged in the US more than anywhere else except homophobic Arab states. Add that to no statutory maternity pay, low levels of social care for the vulnerable (mostly women), the state of your laws and public debate on abortion…..
Sorry, but the USA are definitely contenders for one of the worst women hating nations of the West.
Not just in the west - in the whole world. Just because western women are not required to wear burkas doesn’t mean that misogynistic attitudes are less. The need to control, abuse, and diminish women is just as strong in western culture. This whole Epstein thing has given us a peak into the predatory nature of supposed respectable men.
DJT talks about Rigged elections, both 2016 + 2024 were Rigged. We also had millions of people who didn't vote -- that didn't help matters! I pray they are WOKE NOW🙏🏽
Transphobia is also part of our culture sadly, and a convenient, prurient distraction from the overwhelming majority of sex predators who turn out to be boringly _not_ trans, male, and utterly mainstream. For instance, anyone can easily find far, far more sex abusers including paedophiles on the books who were priests, ministers, and other church workers than trans.
As not many people actually know even one trans person, and the political power of the group is slight, right wingers have found in the trans population a convenient, attention-arresting figure to demonize. They have been succeeding at this btw every bit as much in the U.S. as the U.K. Every week it's a new attack or restriction. To go along with this is also a much, much safer route politically for _any_ politician, left or center or right, than addressing the actual landscape of sexual abuse.
Objectively, trans individuals run in more danger from others than vice versa. And in fact: ONE OF THE FIRST VICTIMS TO REPORT EPSTEIN WAS TRANS.
Sorry to all about the lengthy comment to a thread that is, in itself, a detour. A story about Epstein should not be the place to debate this particular subject but for once I simply cannot pass by in silence.
Surprise! We are talking about the abuse of women and men just cannot stop making it about themselves. Again.
You are right. This is not the place.
But if you want to talk about the legitimate arguments against the trans demands (as opposed to the hatred of trans people because they are different), then look no further than the vulnerability of women to men. Most men can kill a woman with his bare hands and the vast majority of women cannot do the same to men. Men are responsible for 98% of sexual crime and 95% of violent crime and women are often their victims.
An easy, failsafe way of protecting women from male violence is to take situations when they are vulnerable (unclothed, asleep, drugged, imprisoned, recovering from trauma) and make sure no men can take advantage of their vulnerability. We do this by creating single sex spaces, not because all men beat, rape and kill women but because when they are beaten, raped or killed it is very very very likely to be a man who does it.
Transwomen can overpower a woman and beat, rape or kill her relatively easily because of their male bodies which are more powerful (despite any hormone therapy)and because of their sexual organs. Women have a legitimate claim to be separated from ALL men when they are vulnerable, including those with delusions of sex change and those who might lie about a delusion of sex change in order to commit a violent crime against them.
Should transwomen feel vulnerable themselves from other men attacking them, it is not up to women to act as human shields and it is incredibly selfish (and dripping with male entitlement) to ask them to do so. I would imagine that most reasonable (genuine) feminists who see their task as protecting women’s interests would support the claim for separate facilities for trans people, or another solution that does not endanger women. None of this is transphobia.
A fantastic piece, Carole. Thank you for saying what desperately needs to be said. I wouldn't describe these people as 'strong' men though. There's nothing strong about Trump. He's a weak and pathetic person who spreads hate and division because at his core he is scared and insecure. Put under physical or mental pressure, he crumbles or lashes out. Usually both. A better word would have been 'bullying' men because a bully is what he is, using his power to intimidate anyone he can and only ever backing off if he fears there might be consequences and his self-preservation instinct kicks in. Keep on doing what you do. It's wonderful.
The new word for white supremacy is NARCISSISTIC! YOU are Correct they are NOT STRONG by no means .. neither is our legislators sadly! TRUTH IS POWER 🙏🏽💯
Carole. I hope you are holding up okay. thank you for processing all of this for all of us.
I feel sick reading it. I remember those David Hamilton photos - not the nudes, but the soft-focus girl in flower-field type. You are right, so absolutely right. This is the world we live in, we have always known it, but couldnt speak it. the release of the files brings it all to light. The web of power and technology has been so consolidated over the past years, and the events of this year have left so many of us feeling so powerless. Let's all remember your last words for us in this piece:
"We can fight back. We have to. But first we have to see it."
Thanks for helping us see it. Now we have to continue the fight back.
To be clear, David Hamilton’s work was usually nude soft focus girl in flower field. And very young. They were published in hard cover books, not at all inexpensive and everybody and anybody could and did buy them if they had the money and didn’t go for the phwoar look at them bouncers Page Three alternative that was completely acceptable for mass circulation in the millions. “First we have to see it?” You, we, everybody couldn’t do anything BUT see it. It was everywhere. And just like Jimmy Saville, nobody did anything about it. And they still won’t. All the finger-pointing at Mandleson is working out brilliantly for Trump. It’s yet more time he’s bought to not release the files he has no moral or legal right to retain.
Your writing is beautiful. You articulate everything I’m feeling. This this sounds odd, but I am relieved to see others feeling overwhelmed as well, realizing how big, how widespread this dark “mind virus” really is. The projection, the gaslighting, the hypocrisy, the corruption, the evil!!! It’s everywhere you turn, woven through the very fabric of our culture.
I especially appreciate the powerful connection you made between men’s desire for young girls to the hatred of older, wiser women.
Yes, all of us women know moments like the one you shared —all too well. But we always tuck them away. Lock them up for years, fleeting moments or secrets you don’t bring up. Our moments of disempowerment. Meanwhile, we were all having them all the time! And these lost souls, poor excuses for men, really were part of a cabal! I don’t have words for the anger. I hope this moment is a turning point for women. Will we be able to unite and rise up to bring on the dawn of something new? I truly pray we do.
Thank you so much. So important to see, then digest, then act. I read it aloud to my wife. Her first comment was, 'don't forget the church'. I am working on a parallel project to this about violence and the arms industry. I am also overwhelmed.
Indeed! not just the Catholic Church it's most churches that are ran by men! Everything is coming to light hopefully this will be the year to start changing things 💯🙏🏽💜💙
I doubt that she had that much influence on industry, more ‘hearts and minds’ of her adoring fans - amongst whom I didn’t count myself. After all, Fergie was one of her BFs which speaks volumes.
On further investigation she did actually in help.
Catalyst for Action After Death: Following her sudden death on August 31, 1997, the momentum she had created intensified, acting as a "catalyst" for the signing of the Mine Ban Treaty (the Ottawa Convention) in December 1997 by over 120 nations.
While she died before the treaty was officially signed, her, advocacy, was recognized as crucial to the rapid adoption of the agreement, often described as the fastest arms control treaty in history. The ICBL, which won the 1997 Nobel Peace Prize, attributed much of the success to her efforts.
Best thing I've read on Epstein. Absolutely bloody brilliant. Epstein is the darkest part of the patriarchy exposed. But we are so innured to that darkest part that most people can't see it, even when it's literally there in plain sight. This is why I subscribe to your writing Carol. Keep writing.
In all of this, the focus is tending to be on politicians and some of the celebrities, but fundamentally this is about a nexus of political power and financial wealth. The financial wealth coming especially from banking and the tech sector. Each colluding with the other with the sex and paedophilia what they did as 'play' and to demonstrate their misogynistic power over women.
Perhaps not surprising that it is the politicians that we mostly hear about as the wealthy have bought up and control so much of the media which now reports in their interests. The Russian and Israeli involvement takes it to a whole darker level of geopolitical manipulation.
Thank you for writing this, it’s quite revealing and digs into the depth of the issue of power and abuse. As a child we lived some four houses down the street one of the Churches that had,and then passed on, the notorious priest Father Geoghan. We weren’t part of the church and were a bit too young, but some of our friends and their siblings were not.
The kids were absolutely terrified of him, but we didn’t know why. Only years later did I begin to understand and come to realize that one of our friends’ older brother was abused by him. We witnessed the aftermath even if we didn’t know it at the time.
I can’t even imagine how much worse the situation is for girls and young women and how it’s been normalized behind the scenes. The effects on people and families can be, and is often devastating. We need to stop giving the abuse a pass and turning away from it.
I was in the Navy on the West Coast when the trial occurred and recognized some of the family names of the victims that testified while listening to NPR. Twenty years and three thousand miles away it reached out to me.
I couldn't believe the speech Justin Welby made when the abuse of teenage boys by a Church of England priest became public knowledge. His words were " I'm not going to resign over THAT " and he proceeded to make a joke about his head rolling and went on to explain that he was dealing with other more important matters at the time, which prevented him looking into the allegations. It was horrific and like Andrew he believed he had made a good impression ( until someone pointed out how he came across )
I hate that’s it’s almost always reputational or monetary consequences that provoke a change in the response of abusers and enablers, and not empathy for others and moral change.
It's similar to their "Too big to fail" these people are too big to bring down and that our democracy will crumble! The way I feel right now -- let it crumble and start all over again. Keep the good social options for our Society (working class); get rid of ALL LOOPHOLES AND LOBBYISTS 💯🙏🏽
Dear Carole, the DOJ made a diagram of the people closely connected to Epstein and there was this Jean-Luc Brunel, who also committed suicide. I googled this Frenchman and my jaw dropped. He used his modelling agency as a vast sex trafficking ring. The Guardian was the first to reveal his gross business and how he ruined hundreds of girls certain very young (14, 15 or 17). One of his friends, Gerald Marie who worked for Elite and got to marry for a brief time Linda Evangelista, is still alive and was never convicted. I found all the articles written at that time, between the years 2005-2009. The facts started at the end of the eighties. I was literally sick while reading and connecting all the dots. Some models literally sold to Kashoggi for 35.000 to 50.000 dollars an evening. They would get a designer dress for the pass.
It’s not only p…dophily. They are considered as a work force like children in the factories at the beginning of the industrial era. I guess it has to do with the capitalist system where the poor, the young, the minor is just a disposable item. We have not finished seeing the end of this Epstein affair. And now in France, the shit hit the fan too, right in the face of our former culture minister and actual president of the Institute du monde arabe, Jack Lang and his daughter.
Be strong and looking forward to read your next paper.
AYes, in general circles among women, the abuse in the modeling world was widely rumoured. A question: are you preventively self-censuring with the word pedophily? I believe Substack is different from other social media and has not the algorithm and editing functions of those. But I might be wrong. .
Boys and young men were also trafficked. Barrett Pall was in J-L's agency & has been speaking about his experiences in the modeling industry & trafficking on IG
Thank you Carol... a hard read as a bloke. I'm glad I'm not a billionaire and am just a poor environmentalist, who cherishes women and their contributions. Please keep speaking truth to power!!!
The problem is that that poor environmentalists can be paedophiles. Women have no way of knowing, and men turn the other cheek to their friends who they’re not totally sure about - or even know about
Thanks for this article Carole. Yes I'm an "old hag" now but I wasn't always. The headmaster at my school was known to be "a dirty old man." We laughed and cringed at the same time. Being sent to his office had us holding our breath until dismissed as he fumbled with the front of our gym slip whilst berating us for not being tidy enough. He used to hold assembly every morning and stand on the edge of the stage rocking back and forth from toes to heels and thrusting his genitalia out. All the girls would look at each other grimacing and whispering "fall you bastard, fall!" Of course we never complained because, who would believe us? I read 30 years later he had died and actually smiled! As I got older, at the grand old age of 13 I was "wooed" by and older teen, he was 19 and he got me pregnant so I had to leave school and of course could never return because of the shame they left me with. He of course never suffered a day. I was also forced to give the child up for adoption. I married at 17 to a man 7 years older who also treated me like a child. Even all these years later when he converses with me via email because we share child, who's a mother herself, he still manages to put me down like I don't know which way is up! What Epstein did was seen as nothing unusual by those men. Epstein was a true paedophile but the others just used the opportunity to rape the young girls he provided while staying outside of that guilt and shame. They were rich and entitled. I doubt if even now they think of themselves as child abusers. It was their right to buy whatever they want. The fact that Epstein's power came from them is more disgusting. If they hadn't given him control, they might possibly not have become so blatant about it. But, yes SO many men I've met are certainly in that frame of mind at times in their lives. I've seen how they manipulate young girls, I recognise the signs now. I still worry about girls I don't even know being "chatted up" on a park bench as I pass by. I want to say get away from him! The sex crimes and the international financial crimes have been covered up by not just the FBI etc but also by successive governments the world over. It's like a club where membership is a wink and a nod. I doubt that it will ever be eradicated until people are held to account in high and low places. I think of it as the racial discrimination shown to black and brown people, especially in the States. It's built into the fabric of society and when someone like little dick aka trump comes onto the stage to give them licence to be their worst selves they take that advantage. When trump is gone they'll lay low for a while until the next "messiah" arrives to give them rights they believe they deserve. I don't know if it's human nature anymore or just built into the system. Women have been treated as badly by people of all races.
Well done and thanks for perservering. It just gets worse and worse and no doubt more to follow, as the maze of links are all unravelled and eventually joined up. Never mind the two theories - conspirace and a foul up - there is a third it is called the truth and the ghastly people involved need buckets of it.
This bit: “That, I think, is why my words wouldn’t come this week. And why other women I know have struggled too.” I don’t think men understand where women are right now. After Gisele Pelicot, then the Italian case, now this. It’s become undeniable: men view us as orifices or irrelevant. We’re in a profoundly dark place, whereas they are carrying on as if it’s just another news story.
Agree wholeheartedly! My well informed (at least, I always thought!) husband cannot figure out why I take this so seriously. It’s because it’s a result of a society that sexualizes girls, women, and when they are no longer sexually appealing, dismisses them.
As a husband I find myself in the same situation you describe. This topic has angered my wife for a long time and as much as I try to “put myself in the other person’s shoes” I don’t think it is possible to completely realize those emotions. As my wife says you can’t fully understand if you haven’t grown up as a woman. I think it is the same for black Americans for example as whites don't understand the systemic hurdles and prejudices faced when you don’t live it 24/7/365. And I absolutely cannot fathom why so many women seem to almost volunteer for this, from child models (as in Carol’s story) all the way up to our Trump enabling politicians. What I do think I can 100% comprehend though is the sick reaction of “dominant” groups when their oppression comes to light. The backlash to Black Lives Matter post George Floyd, hatred of Colin Kaepernick kneeling, and now the demonization of immigrants etc shows how many people won’t even attempt to see another side of an issue (and by no means is paedophelia and objectification of women just an “issue”). If any small shred of good can result from the entire Epstein revelations it will hopefully be exposing this as the portion of instinctual male behavior that it is so we can start moving towards unacceptability with regard to marginalizing and exploiting women.
It's not instinctual though. It's societal conditioning and programming coded into entertainment, information, advertising, etc. Think about the fact that men refer to their boats, cars, guitars, etc as feminine. Men benefit most from this objectification.
Back when the slaves got the right to vote a woman abolitionist asked Frederick Douglass if he'd support women's right to vote and he told that woman that women would have to wait their turn.
Think about medical treatment. A man's erectile dysfunction medication before women's heart medication, cancer treatment, and many other conditions. If a white man complains about something hurting him, he's believed more than a woman or any person of color. It all comes back to "the importance of being male" rather than being human or a living being that needs help.
Medical treatment and education are getting gutted in the United States because those would improve things for everybody instead of just white men because white men somehow have to benefit the most at the cost of everybody else to maintain white men's pleasure and control.
Let all of that sink in.
Yes, and even white men are arranged in a hierarchy of power. The first beneficiaries are the rich (white) men (alpha parasites as someone called them) at the top. It's a complex hierarchy in which everyone must submit to abuse from those above and may abuse those below. Women's place in the hierarchy is determined by the men they 'belong' to. The whole point is to climb the hierarchy. That may be a simplification but it makes more sense than framing it as men vs women or white vs black. And think about how children (and animals) fit into this. Because there's even worse than paedophilia (framed here as 'desire' for children.) Pleasure? There's also a desire or compulsion to hurt, and worse.
‘so many women seem to volunteer for this’ - if you honestly mean that you are part of the problem, but I thought you might be anyway from your first couple of sentences. Don’t you understand what power is? Can’t you understand the myriad ways it manifests in our societies, right from subtly almost not there to the blatantly unmissably obvious? Virginia Guiffre was raped by her father (and one of his friends) from early childhood; her father then worked for and introduced her to Epstein. When children are abused so systematically, how can they ever react in normal ways? How can they ever grow into self determined women free to make independent choices? There is nothing complicated here. There is nothing to understand, except that men are in power and that power corrupts, thoroughly and deeply.
just like underage teens can't "consent" women don't "volunteer" even young teen girls for being oogled observed oppressed into uncomfortable acceptance coz that's what they want you to do . . . back to 'is my skirt too short' days and "teach your daughters how not to get raped" rather than "teach your fkn sons not to rape women' respect and rights days all over again
It's not either/or, it's both.
Don't blame women dude - kids line up for stuff that they don't understand because adults tell them to
Not remotely “blaming women” but there sure are a good number of enablers in the current administration. It is hard to comprehend any woman supporting Trump and the broligarchy with what is in those files and e-mails and the overall misogynistic climate we are in.
It’s really hard to explain. When I was young at my first office job, I tried so hard to look sophisticated and cool. I was played by a lot of older men who sensed it right away and hovered in. Their “flirtation” was oppressive and scary, but when I backed-off I was called cold, fridgid, a lesbian. I was just trying to fit it, and it hurt. I had the fortitude to get out of there and start new, much wiser. I can easily imagine a girl with dreams of fame and fortune being drawn-in totally. These men throw challenges at you to test how tough you are, and say things like “if you can’t handle this, you’ll never handle the big time”. When you’re naive but ambitious, you’re fodder. Don’t forget as well that Maxwell was able to sniff-out the most vulnerable girls from broken homes, needy, looking for affection. Easy marks.
100%. Young girls are still very naive and can think the flattery is genuine. Been there a long time ago. Especially vulnerable without the healthy, supportive, protective love of a good father.
Because some women think that it is better to sit at the right hand of a dangerous man rather than suffer the same abuse as his targets....even if it means they offer up their daughters to him. Pure fully and a delay of the inevitable for them.
i think people dramatically underestimate the role of drugs in all this. the sex island had a drug menu with a price list for a reason -- more than a few people in these circles are brutally addicted to drugs. it may, in fact, be most.
because they are a bit smarter than your everyday drug addict, and have more resources, they often check themselves into rehab -- but only to "detox," or take a "t-break." they aren't really trying to quit -- just trying to balance their desire to ride high with their desire to live forever.
musk, thiel, epstein -- the extent of their drug addictions is widely known. when you consider them this way, it explains a lot of their behavior. this is perhaps impolitic to say, but drug addicts get up to a lot of crazy shiet, and the more money they have, the crazier they get. no one in their right mind would think that having seventeen children by thirteen women like musk has would go well -- it's a drug addict's power fantasy, again combined with that immortality thing. no one in their right mind would think inviting this many people to a teen sex island would be perfectly dandy forever -- that's a drug addict's invulnerability delusion. because he had money, he was less delusional than your average meth user in terms of his invulnerability, but he was still delusional. and when they put him in jail, with no drugs, the withdrawal was searing. if you doubt that he killed himself, ask a heavy drug user what cold-turkey withdrawal feels like.
the reason i say all this to you is, the drug factor also explains, i suspect, much of the cooperation from women. it's a classic blaxploitation trope for the pusher kingpin to have a stunning babe by his side, who he makes do shameful things for another hit. epstein was the same kind of pusher pimp, addicted to stimulants himself while giving out free samples of drugs to young women. and those young women -- unlike young women in a bad neighborhood -- wouldn't have any clue where to get more, other than through him. and they would have no choice but to do whatever he wanted.
he wouldn't have to be as crude as offering them a pill either -- he could have just said he had a secret energy drink that only he could get. in reality, it's a pinch of meth and a pinch of rohypnol in a red bull. the young woman finds herself doing things for him she never imagined that very day -- not knowing that she isn't herself. and then she wants more. she doesn't know she's been hooked on a drug. she just thinks being around epstein feels amazing. and he keeps that magic drink coming, he makes it stronger, he asks for more. worse. now that young woman has done things she doesn't want her family to know about. now she's his.
i can more or less guarantee you that that's about exactly how it went down. and i'm sure i haven't even plumbed close to the depths of the sick fuck shit the bastard did to lure people in.
aside from the withdrawal, i think epstein killed himself because he knew he'd done things people would have him drawn and quartered for. flayed alive perhaps. listen to becca balint when she says "sick fucks" -- there was far worse going on than just plain sex with teens, that i can about guarantee you. this is far from over, and the worst is yet to come. scratch that -- we may never know the worst. the worst might've died with epstein, since the young women he did the worst to probably wouldn't remember a thing, unconscious or roofied as they wouldve been. but there's worse yet to come, of that i am certain.
As another woman has put it "they suck the dick of the patriarchy"
Sadly and infuriatingly, our society encourages and trains kids to just obey and accept rather than to question and say no.
Some women are so buried by patriarchy that they are not on their own side. To stay safe as a woman within conservative circles, the only way is to align yourself with male goals. You can see the way GOP women deform their faces with surgery and fillers: this is to demonstrate their obedience and submission to male porn-star ideals. They must atone for the sin of being politically powerful by overstating their subservience with hair extensions and filler-face. Other women become perfect wives and mothers to demonstrate their submission. They don’t realise that no matter how far they debase themselves or sell themselves out, patriarchy will never protect them. I guess they feel they have no other choice. I wonder about Ghislaine Maxwell’s choices to fetch and serve up for Jeffrey every single little girl his twisted heart desired, and run his household affairs for him to boot. What motivated her? Did she deeply believe that her role in life, and the role of every other woman and girl on the planet, was to serve men?
You’ve proven you’re a male not at all unlike the ones you feign to be baffled by. You “cannot fathom why so many women seem to almost volunteers for this…” Seriously. Get out. Take a woman studies 101 class. No one is volunteering for any of this. They’re innocent and trusting and that’s exactly what appeals to these wolves. Mature women scare them because we are no longer innocent or trusting, rather we see right through them.
As well as being sexualised, young girls are often attributed with adult thinking that they aren’t yet capable of. For example, men often believe little girls or teenagers are acting sexually or alluring on purpose, and accuse them of being a “vixen” or a “tease” when she really has almost no idea what sexual behaviour even is. Men’s thinking about girls is so fked up that they can’t seem to grasp that someone of 14 has zero concept of what is going on in an adult man’s head.
Re: "And I absolutely cannot fathom why so many women seem to almost volunteer for this," This statement tells me how uninformed you are about a very sensitive subject. Do learn more, please.
boundaries! and humanity. and respecting women's bodies and beings and existences. doesn't help when the abuser in chief leader of the "free world" proudly publicly ok's "grabbing them by the pussy" . . . devolving rapidly on the women's rights and respect these days. even older women, reproductive rights entitlement n control . . . and we fought so hard just to get "is my skirt too short?" understood sigh. . . . #evervigilant
instinctual what now???
Correction: black MEN received the right to vote before any woman of any color.
Just the fact that you can’t shop for women’s clothes online without seeing 14-year-old girls modelling them, always sexualised, often with their legs spread, vacant eyes and mouths open. I call that one the blow-up-doll pose. They have had to wipe all personality from their faces and just offer up their orifices 🤮 I’m thinking of boycotting any fashion label that uses teenagers to model clothes for adult women. It's one of these things we have always accepted as normal but post-Epstein it has occurred to me that it is nothing short of mainstream paedolphilia.
It has a name in the fashion industry: Kinderwhoring.
The problem is sadism and psychopathy enabled by a sick society. People don’t want to see what’s right in front of them. They willingly accept excuses, narratives, and lies.
We are living in a sick society vulnerable to exploitation by the most brazen predators. Children, not just girls, are at risk. The predatory classes know how to spot them and reel them into their world.
Most people are not so sick. Now that we know the problem, we must acknowledge the harm and punish the perpetrators. We must demand justice.
Not all men, I certainly do not view women as vassals or objects nor do my friends. This disease is predominantly white rich men and more so Jewish white men.
I am always instantly wary of any man who claims ‘not all men’. To be defensive, rather than listening, demonstrates a lack of understanding at best. How do women know you are ‘not all men’? What do you do to tackle these attitudes when other men display them? If you truly believe you are walking around in a world of ‘not all men’ you have your eyes closed or are incredibly naive. And don’t get me started on your anti semitism……
I recently got into a similar discussion with a man on Julie K. Brown's Substack, who tried to "both sides" the issue of male sexual predators. When I presented him with the numbers and a reliable source, i.e., that something like 97% of those convicted of sex crimes are men and asked him where he got facts to support his claim, he said he would not continue the discussion because I was not debating him in "good faith" and it "disrespected" the subject matter at hand!! I'm still hopping mad at virtue signaling, clueless men like that.
Nicely said Ty
Not all men.
But enough men that, until it's no men, we must assume all men for our own safety.
The next time you're out with the guys and you hear some sexist "joke"? Maybe you step up and say "hey, you know what that's not cool. Misogyny isn't funny."
Maybe after a generation or two it'll be enough for us to not have to assume "all men".
But you see the big problem's here: you're not listening. You're running your mouth off.
When women are speaking about our collective experience, we don't need (or want) you stepping in. This is a really good time for you to shut up and listen. Internalize what we're saying. And then you can be a real ally.
After you lose the anti-Semitism too. Scratch the surface and I wonder what else we'd find?
Very good point about men stepping up and challenging inappropriate behavior in other men when they are together. That would go a long long way. As I type this I am reminded how men will stand around in places and make comments about women. If one of them spoke up and said, "Knock it off," there would be an effect that would spread among them. The standing around part reminds me of that picture of Trump and Epstein looking at girls and Trump acting like a moron as he speaks to Epstein with his stupid dorky junior high smiley face. Ugh!
Don't forget to spew your vile anti-semitism whenever you can.
lol that you felt you had to say “not all men” makes it you. Women must be wrong, I guess?
The first rule of gun safety is: Treat every gun like it's loaded.
The first rule of surviving as a woman is: Treat every man like he's a predator.
To say Not all men is to ask women to play Russian roulette.
Not all men may not consciously view women as vassals or objects, but all men do live in a world that is unavailable to all women and it is this world that leads to the conscious and subconscious objectification of both young and older women. As a woman, and now as an older woman, it has taken me years to see that all men simply inhabit a space I can never enter, have never been able to enter, and never will. The core of this world is the freedom to be. Men are free to be men in a world that values and respects them because they are men and women never truly have this freedom. All men live in this world and most men are unaware of it. Rich and powerful men exploit it but all men experience it, even if to themselves they say they are different and not like other men. I have known many "nice men" who would immediately say they are "not all men" but every single one of them have, at one time or another expected, often without awareness, that I adjust my freedom to be me and instead be what they want, who they want, and when they want, and when I don't they are offended, insulted, and often the relationship ends. All women are taught from an early age that there is a cost to being freely themselves, so most women adjust. It is, as this post points out, part of the culture. A culture which has been and continues to be created for the freedom of men.
But how many men?
The Giselle Pelicot case taught us we haven’t been thinking big enough. There were scores of men from the same small French town willing to rape an unconscious woman. Hundreds more knew about it but said nothing. All were complicit in it continuing.
How many men?
Dude, stop with this shit. If it's not about you then it's not about you. Why are you defensive? That's your shit. No one else's.
Please, let’s not be gullible so as to fall into antisemitism… this is inherent in all Abrahamic religions… particularly those of orthodox or fundamentalist bent… & the includes the “mainstream” well meaning varieties as well … white Cristian fundamentalists - of both Catholic & Protestant backgrounds, white nationalists, ALL of Islam (it is distinguished in their Quran, as well as in Hindi, and any other patriarchal based religions… it is simple the mind virus of patriarchy, particularly spread by white European cristian based imperialists since the monotheistic Cristian church formed & evolved into & identified as the Catholic Church. It is in their Old Testament and reinforced, party the apostle Paul in the New testament. They have been the universal method for enforcing patriarchy in the western world. As for “the East” - they had their own particularly crude Abrahamic version of Islam. Possibly even worse than Christianity based on the commands & requirements, directly as stated in their holy book, the Quran… and if you don’t follow it, you can be put to death.
It’s not particularly Jewish men … but the foundations of patriarchy are encoded in their holy book & other “versions” of it went even further. But it was white Northern European culture that codified it throughout our western world. And Islam throughout the East.
You're an ignorant misogynist and a willing anti-Semitic xenophobe.
You aren't part of the problem. You're the problem.
Dunno, think many of the Anglo Saxon men do just fine
Nope. It runs across all classes, ethnicities, religions, etc, of men. Think more deeply man.
And after “metoo” as if there is an after; there is an eternal present
Many years ago, in my 20s, I was people watching with a man was dating. He mused, “I wonder why, when they get old, women get ugly, but men become distinguished.” He honestly thought he was asking about how the world was, rather than giving me a window into who he was. We didn’t date for long.
All men?
No, but it’s not like pedo is written on your forehead, so forgive us if we are wary of ALL men!
Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them
All men, no. But the older I get, I think maybe most men.
Exactly. And the calculus is so very complicated that it's beyond most of us. So very exhausting.
So exhausting
Exhausting and sickening. Shocked responses to the Epstein revelations focus on "Powerful, rich men". This narrows the field of vision. My view us that it is most men as evidenced in the 2014 police report of VaWG, violence against women and girls crimes 2018 to 2022. 0e woman every 3 days is killed by a man in UK and VaWG crimes increased by37% 2028 to 2022.
I believe online pornography is encouraging particularly young men to view women as sexual objects, pornography is demeaning women especially young women and girls. Whenever I ask why is pornography allowed to be on line?it cant be stopped, people make money from it.!
Funny thing, the older I get the more I see it in all men, including my large hippy kind hearted friends and family and neighbors who are men, I still see the dynamics in play. It’s like being white, you can’t not be a white person with all the central privileges in a world that makes way for the white person.
But you can be an ally. It’s work and it’s a choice.
I’m white (my icon is a favourite painting by my daughter). Everyday brings new lessons highlighting my privilege - which is only worth having if I can use it to help amplify & protect the voices of others…
I hope I live to see the day when everyone has been lifted to the heights of respect currently guarded by, promoted, enforced, and afforded to the wealthy & the powerful & the white & the mainstream conventional attractive, etc..
I’m working towards the era when all the overt & subliminal benefits of privilege are distributed and experienced universally rendering it nullified.
To me, it’s not about a race to the bottom & reducing standards to the lowest common denominator - it’s about a rising tide lifting all boats🛶⛵️🚤
So far w/in about 2 months I’ve encountered 4 men/male accounts on Substack who have clearly made the choice to be allies to women. That’s pretty good! 🥰
But I’ve lost track of how many I have blocked &/or reported for hate (racist, homophobic, & mysogynist), which is not unexpected 🥺
The reality is most older men have committed sexual assault one or more times in their life.
Yeah, even ones who are convinced they’re feminist🙄 (Learned this the hard way🫤)
Exactly. It’s depressing. They are fundamentally socially defective.
Enough to say most. Enough to be wary of all. Enough that ALL men ought to have to observe curfews and ought to be accompagnied by at least two adult female chaperones whenever they leave the house.
no. Mainly the uncool twats we used to hate in the playground - and defintely don't hang out with in adulthood.
Seriously: there are many decent guys out there. Don't let the good people get divided.
Every time I talk about sexual assault there’s always a guy trying to claim that it’s just a minority who does this stuff. Yet every woman has a story. That was literally why it was called ‘MeToo’: because EVERY FUCKING WOMAN HAS A STORY. So maybe you didn’t do it, didn’t by some miracle see it, but don’t diminish the claims of those sharing their stories of pain by claiming that it’s only a few. Think instead about why that is your first impulse.
> EVERY FUCKING WOMAN HAS A STORY.
^ This! ^
Every single one of us...
BOOM!
I can't actually believe there's a #NotAllMen discussion proliferating in these comments. Ffs.
Well how do we know which ones Inspector Clouseau?
Yeah most of us don’t because our moms didn’t explain what behaviors of men aren’t ok and what qualities to look for, what qualities to run like hell from, how to handle a conversation with a flattering or controlling manipulator at a party or on the phone or at work or at school. To not go too fast in a relationship, to know the difference between infatuation and deep love, and on and on and on. We DO have to educate our girls and describe the uncomfortable without scaring the holy shit out of them.
If a man wants to hide his dark side, he’s gonna hide it. It’s not up to the person that it’s hidden from to suss it out constantly…all the time. It’s better to default to assumption for one’s own safety.
Did I say that? All the time? No I did not. I said we moms must educate our daughters. We have all had experiences and knowledge to impart to them.
Maybe moms didn't explain it because they were struggling with it too? How about if dads get held accountable more often?
Excellent reply ❤️
That would take some serious reflection that was anesthetized in most males back in 1200 BC.
My dad used to say, "I know what teenage boys are like because I was one once." But he used that reasoning to justify not letting me do things, not to teach me how to protect myself. So I would argue back, "If you don't let me do things till I get older, then all the boys will be more experienced than I am when you finally can't say no any more, and I'll be at an even greater disadvantage." That, and my mom, finally convinced him to let me go out.
Excelente point.
The guy that doesn't say anything in the presence of misogyny is not different than the misogynist.
Whete are the " decent guy's " voices or actions ?? To call out all the other men's attitude to women
You can think you’re dealing with a decent guy, but a decent guy is self proclaimed. If you dig a little deeper, he’s got a porn addiction or gaming addiction or he’s got an entitlement issue or he’s a martyr or something. I don’t think men aspire to the same things women do.
The important truth is that we only have control over ourselves. Codependency among women is a global scourge just as is patriarchy. It’s a lot of work to cleanse ourselves of enabling behavior as women but the more we do the more powerful we become. Growing ourselves, claiming control and responsibility for planetary resources, paying close attention to how we raise our children, stepping into our power and leadership and on and on. Paying attention to how we negotiate and resolve each conflict from the intimate to the global. The patriarchal world culture forms womens’ walk-away alternatives to every dispute. We need to and can change this. Please read my new book Collaborative Hardball: Using the Power of a New Negotiation as Women to Change the World, www.susancoleman.global/book
It self promotion wasn’t so patriarchal … send me
An invitation to your retreat.
Where are the voices of the men who dont abuse women and children??? Speaking out loudly against the large numbers of men who do.
I know, if the genders were reversed, many more women abusing and killing men, I would be ashamed to be a woman, and I would be speaking out,
Patriarchy is not equal to gender!!!
You are correct. There are decent guys
yep, lots of "decent guys" who deny its happening because they haven't raped someone....but they ALL know men who have raped or assaulted someone and said NOTHING. Decent guys abound....and maintain "decency" in the name of patriarchy by not rocking the boat.
Exactly. Show me a guy. Just come up with a guy who is making any meaningful difference for women with the power of being a white dude who under the right kind and amount of pressure toward extracting a sacrifice of ANYTHING will crack and find a rationalization and snow you just enough to keep the halo glowing… in the end their secrets are the typical ones of depraved men.
I can appreciate that! I’ve given this tie thought: patriarchy is a system and this is what it looks like… power and entitlement and getting away with depraved behaviors, corruption, all the things… I won’t let the good people get divided as you say but I still see the operative thread of patriarchy… I see it in women too, those who are frozen and cannot step outside the traumatic male gaze that traps them to deny reality…what is our unconscious and conscious relationship with the systemic patriarchy in every drop of water we drink? Add white, add wealth, add power. This is the cocktail of patriarchy right now in all things happening.
Pls be quiet with your nonsense.
If your takeaway from the news of huge numbers of men raping and destroying the lives of women and children is to centre yourself, you should think about why that is.
THIS🔥🔥🔥 Una❤️🔥
In consequence I don’t have to think about why that is.
Please assume that I have no regrets to be woke. That might be uncool, but I just like ad rem debates where people focus on facts. Admittedly, that’s not easy in today’s toxic discussion culture.
Your comment though, just two words, is not debate or discussion, it's clickbait, designed to create upset amongst readers, to get attention, I suppose. Carole will have been very diligent with facts. To assume that a married woman is suggesting it's all men is ridiculous. I am married to a wonderful man. And yet I know he does not always call out other men's misogyny. We can't do it without the good men, change this society. So if you are one of the good ones, which I believe you probably are, just listen and try to help. As a man you cannot understand the fear that women live with, but you can listen. I know that men also have to deal with fear of these men, and I think that's why the good men don't always call out misogyny. But please be brave, and try to do that sometimes instead.
Thank you for describing your assumptions.
I think you’ll find the Snark when you look in the mirror, Goetz,
u be focussing on your fragile ego. that ain’t woke
Of course not ALL men……..and I think we must keep some sane perspective on this. Carole is brilliant, she is so right on so many issues, and her research on Russian connections to Brexit and Trump’s unbelievable double election wins reveal how Putin’s ‘War on the West’ continues to use power-hungry men to shape our world. But please, Carole, let’s not turn this whole thing into a feminist ‘battle of the sexes’………..(and maybe women need to reflect a little bit on why they are subjecting themselves to risky surgical procedures etc in order to appeal to men?)
Your last sentence ... it's called patriarchy! Women are subjected to messages that tell them how they have to look, and behave, from infancy. No man can ever truly feel that. I do appreciate the few who do their best to educate themselves, though. And, I mean the ones who put in the emotional labour to do that and don't expect women to do that for them.
Don’t you think all MEN are also conditioned from infancy as well……….I do accept that both genders are, and it’s often not in a good way. Children in general need to receive love and nurturing throughout their childhood, especially in the early years……..this all helps them to give love and nurturing to others, and to feel a sense of their own value and self esteem. BUT sadly, not many children, boys or girls, do receive what they need to flourish. And the current drive to get women back to the workplace, and children into ‘childcare settings’, ASAP after giving birth, exacerbates this sad situation. Sad for children, that is, and the insecure adults they often become.
Of course, men are also conditioned from infancy. It is a patriarchal system that requires both men, and women, to fulfil pre-ordained roles for it to operate effectively. My husband and I both worked and our children attended childcare. We gave them love and attention, good nutrition, helped them to build good values, taught them to cook and other life skills. They are independent, in their mid and late twenties and have good relationships with their partners and friends. It was a battle to fight the patriarchal norms to help them become well rounded men who respect other people's rights, particularly here in 'blokey' Australia. Women have internalised misogyny and we need to constantly examine and challenge it. When a woman says "what about men" it might be an indication of such internalised misogyny. Men need to be accountable for their thoughts and behaviours and, do their own work.
Putin would've been a fool to NOT fund trans ideology.. to whittle away faith in institutions and eride democracy and feminism.. and particularly good to buy the Democrats. Then tell repubs to keep quiet til right before the election.. 2 weeks prior, boom! Got his guy in office.
Agree entirely.
Amen to that. And wearing caterpillars on their upper eyelids.
Holy shit Barbara. Seems like you're missing some big points. Women are conditioned to perform beauty rituals that please men. Do you think those fluttering caterpillar eyelashes are for the attraction of other women? No. It's the same thing as big red lips...a signal of youthful , dewy, fresh innocence. Not a lot of older women wearing these....young women do it because they think its what men want to see. You and Margaret sound like the proverbial fish that don't see the water they're swimming in.
Oh DUH Heather. Yes I just fell off the back of the turnip truck. Thanks for the brand new to me explanation of why women make themselves look ridiculous as well as damage their bodies or health. Because in 81 years on this planet I hadn’t noticed that or done stupid stuff myself. Where would we be without people like you to explain the hard stuff? So grateful for your insightful comment. Maybe it’s you who are missing some points - plural. Cheesus.
Have you ever thought about why those eyelashes look so silly? It's because they look unnatural and that makes them look, well, a bit desperate. But, newsflash, they are desperate! They have such limited opportunities for power, this is how they are trying to secure resources. You'd do better to pity them mock them, but better still just keep your eyes on who is actually the enemy here.
You should maybe take a break from the internet and go yell at kids playing outside.
If not all the sandwiches on my tray contained dog shit, would you eat one without checking?
Of course not all men. But Epstein clearly used men's weakness for them to gain power. And young women and girls were easier to control. So he encouraged it. That's why he's collected all this files. To control others. And I suspect many men who claim they wouldn't, would be tempted if it was offered on a plate. And many men will have looked at teen porn without considering age checking. If you looked at Sam Fox on p3, that is child porn. She was there for the first time on her 16th birthday. So they must have taken that picture when she was 15. I don't know how any copies it sold but it will be thousands.
Does it matter?
Does it matter to you?
Too many men.
That’s true.
All people have been brainwashed into patriarchal thinking and white supremacist thinking. ALL of us. Women, people of color, ALL. The difference is when you see this, own it, and refuse it.
You mean the enablers, the ones who deflect, the ones who look the other way, the ones who change the subject, the ones who hold everyone else accountable and the ones who center themselves?
Yes. You’re right. 98.5% is pretty much….all.
Must you?
If you need to ask you're part of the problem.
I've still to meet a man that is undeniably pro women's rights all the time.
I include myself on this.
Enough.
Some of us men are decent human beings and give women the respect that they deserve, which is the way that I was raised…
Is this really just a male or rich men problem? Could they have been able to pull this off WITHOUT the women (water-bearers such as Ghislaine and others) who helped them by enticing, deceiving and procuring these girls for these predators? Ignoring the role of these Trojan horses and traitors is hypocritical and won't help us one bit in trying to understand how Evil operates in this world viz. through willing accomplices.
Genuine question, as I’m puzzled. If women don’t want to be seen as toys or sex objects, why do they so often treat themselves in that way……..as painted, plastic surgery, Barbie dolls? Is it to please men? Are they conditioned to do so? I have no idea, but they’re definitely playing the same games.
Thank you for putting it into perspective. What scares me the most is how long all this Epstein information was known and how little has happened by way of prosecution.
The only other person to have been arrested so far is a woman. Tells us very clearly what we're up against.
How little has happened and how nothing is going to happen, according to DO(In)J mouthpiece (and former Trump lawyer) Todd Blanche. Mind-boggling.
Something like 10 countries have opened investigations based on the released information.
The US is not one of them. Could it be that we have the most intertwined-with-jeff state and federal governments? (Who was it who protected jeff in FL? Just Pam Bondi?) It seems unlikely we hate women and children more than those other countries, when patriarchy / misogyny is just as pervasive in them as they are here.
The evidence is quite hefty on the USA being one of the most misogynistic countries in the West. They cannot bring themselves to vote a woman to the presidency, even though they have voted a black man in twice, for all the angst and energy poured into the idea that America is racist (and I’m not saying that is wrong). The US is the global centre of the porn industry - and rather horrifically the sexual torture of women is protected as *free speech* ffs. The misogynistic trans “rights” movement is turbo charged in the US more than anywhere else except homophobic Arab states. Add that to no statutory maternity pay, low levels of social care for the vulnerable (mostly women), the state of your laws and public debate on abortion…..
Sorry, but the USA are definitely contenders for one of the worst women hating nations of the West.
Not just in the west - in the whole world. Just because western women are not required to wear burkas doesn’t mean that misogynistic attitudes are less. The need to control, abuse, and diminish women is just as strong in western culture. This whole Epstein thing has given us a peak into the predatory nature of supposed respectable men.
Conflating trans rights as misogynistic is just pure evil.
I won't say more.
💯👍🏽🧐💜💙
DJT talks about Rigged elections, both 2016 + 2024 were Rigged. We also had millions of people who didn't vote -- that didn't help matters! I pray they are WOKE NOW🙏🏽
That component is also part of our culture sadly.
Transphobia is also part of our culture sadly, and a convenient, prurient distraction from the overwhelming majority of sex predators who turn out to be boringly _not_ trans, male, and utterly mainstream. For instance, anyone can easily find far, far more sex abusers including paedophiles on the books who were priests, ministers, and other church workers than trans.
As not many people actually know even one trans person, and the political power of the group is slight, right wingers have found in the trans population a convenient, attention-arresting figure to demonize. They have been succeeding at this btw every bit as much in the U.S. as the U.K. Every week it's a new attack or restriction. To go along with this is also a much, much safer route politically for _any_ politician, left or center or right, than addressing the actual landscape of sexual abuse.
Objectively, trans individuals run in more danger from others than vice versa. And in fact: ONE OF THE FIRST VICTIMS TO REPORT EPSTEIN WAS TRANS.
https://lucyfromnaarm.com/latest/trans-teen-accused-epstein-2007-settlement/
Sorry to all about the lengthy comment to a thread that is, in itself, a detour. A story about Epstein should not be the place to debate this particular subject but for once I simply cannot pass by in silence.
Surprise! We are talking about the abuse of women and men just cannot stop making it about themselves. Again.
You are right. This is not the place.
But if you want to talk about the legitimate arguments against the trans demands (as opposed to the hatred of trans people because they are different), then look no further than the vulnerability of women to men. Most men can kill a woman with his bare hands and the vast majority of women cannot do the same to men. Men are responsible for 98% of sexual crime and 95% of violent crime and women are often their victims.
An easy, failsafe way of protecting women from male violence is to take situations when they are vulnerable (unclothed, asleep, drugged, imprisoned, recovering from trauma) and make sure no men can take advantage of their vulnerability. We do this by creating single sex spaces, not because all men beat, rape and kill women but because when they are beaten, raped or killed it is very very very likely to be a man who does it.
Transwomen can overpower a woman and beat, rape or kill her relatively easily because of their male bodies which are more powerful (despite any hormone therapy)and because of their sexual organs. Women have a legitimate claim to be separated from ALL men when they are vulnerable, including those with delusions of sex change and those who might lie about a delusion of sex change in order to commit a violent crime against them.
Should transwomen feel vulnerable themselves from other men attacking them, it is not up to women to act as human shields and it is incredibly selfish (and dripping with male entitlement) to ask them to do so. I would imagine that most reasonable (genuine) feminists who see their task as protecting women’s interests would support the claim for separate facilities for trans people, or another solution that does not endanger women. None of this is transphobia.
Just saying. As you brought up the subject.
Just like every single preceding scandal. Systemic rot and collusion.
A fantastic piece, Carole. Thank you for saying what desperately needs to be said. I wouldn't describe these people as 'strong' men though. There's nothing strong about Trump. He's a weak and pathetic person who spreads hate and division because at his core he is scared and insecure. Put under physical or mental pressure, he crumbles or lashes out. Usually both. A better word would have been 'bullying' men because a bully is what he is, using his power to intimidate anyone he can and only ever backing off if he fears there might be consequences and his self-preservation instinct kicks in. Keep on doing what you do. It's wonderful.
The new word for white supremacy is NARCISSISTIC! YOU are Correct they are NOT STRONG by no means .. neither is our legislators sadly! TRUTH IS POWER 🙏🏽💯
Carole. I hope you are holding up okay. thank you for processing all of this for all of us.
I feel sick reading it. I remember those David Hamilton photos - not the nudes, but the soft-focus girl in flower-field type. You are right, so absolutely right. This is the world we live in, we have always known it, but couldnt speak it. the release of the files brings it all to light. The web of power and technology has been so consolidated over the past years, and the events of this year have left so many of us feeling so powerless. Let's all remember your last words for us in this piece:
"We can fight back. We have to. But first we have to see it."
Thanks for helping us see it. Now we have to continue the fight back.
To be clear, David Hamilton’s work was usually nude soft focus girl in flower field. And very young. They were published in hard cover books, not at all inexpensive and everybody and anybody could and did buy them if they had the money and didn’t go for the phwoar look at them bouncers Page Three alternative that was completely acceptable for mass circulation in the millions. “First we have to see it?” You, we, everybody couldn’t do anything BUT see it. It was everywhere. And just like Jimmy Saville, nobody did anything about it. And they still won’t. All the finger-pointing at Mandleson is working out brilliantly for Trump. It’s yet more time he’s bought to not release the files he has no moral or legal right to retain.
Your writing is beautiful. You articulate everything I’m feeling. This this sounds odd, but I am relieved to see others feeling overwhelmed as well, realizing how big, how widespread this dark “mind virus” really is. The projection, the gaslighting, the hypocrisy, the corruption, the evil!!! It’s everywhere you turn, woven through the very fabric of our culture.
I especially appreciate the powerful connection you made between men’s desire for young girls to the hatred of older, wiser women.
Yes, all of us women know moments like the one you shared —all too well. But we always tuck them away. Lock them up for years, fleeting moments or secrets you don’t bring up. Our moments of disempowerment. Meanwhile, we were all having them all the time! And these lost souls, poor excuses for men, really were part of a cabal! I don’t have words for the anger. I hope this moment is a turning point for women. Will we be able to unite and rise up to bring on the dawn of something new? I truly pray we do.
I hope we WAKE UP SOON 🙏🏽 MORE MEN WITH MORALS NEED TO SPEAK UP AS WELL 💯🙏🏽💜💙
Thank you so much. So important to see, then digest, then act. I read it aloud to my wife. Her first comment was, 'don't forget the church'. I am working on a parallel project to this about violence and the arms industry. I am also overwhelmed.
No snark intended but Amen to don't forget the church. I have stories.
Indeed! not just the Catholic Church it's most churches that are ran by men! Everything is coming to light hopefully this will be the year to start changing things 💯🙏🏽💜💙
I always wondered if there was a link between Diana's death and her stopping mine manufacturing.
I doubt that she had that much influence on industry, more ‘hearts and minds’ of her adoring fans - amongst whom I didn’t count myself. After all, Fergie was one of her BFs which speaks volumes.
I was under the impression at the time it was a done deal, then she died and it was forgotten about.
On further investigation she did actually in help.
Catalyst for Action After Death: Following her sudden death on August 31, 1997, the momentum she had created intensified, acting as a "catalyst" for the signing of the Mine Ban Treaty (the Ottawa Convention) in December 1997 by over 120 nations.
While she died before the treaty was officially signed, her, advocacy, was recognized as crucial to the rapid adoption of the agreement, often described as the fastest arms control treaty in history. The ICBL, which won the 1997 Nobel Peace Prize, attributed much of the success to her efforts.
Best thing I've read on Epstein. Absolutely bloody brilliant. Epstein is the darkest part of the patriarchy exposed. But we are so innured to that darkest part that most people can't see it, even when it's literally there in plain sight. This is why I subscribe to your writing Carol. Keep writing.
In all of this, the focus is tending to be on politicians and some of the celebrities, but fundamentally this is about a nexus of political power and financial wealth. The financial wealth coming especially from banking and the tech sector. Each colluding with the other with the sex and paedophilia what they did as 'play' and to demonstrate their misogynistic power over women.
Perhaps not surprising that it is the politicians that we mostly hear about as the wealthy have bought up and control so much of the media which now reports in their interests. The Russian and Israeli involvement takes it to a whole darker level of geopolitical manipulation.
It's always been there.
It's the moment of "...don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain, I am the great and powerful Oz!"
We just got the X-rated version.
“[M]isogyny of adult women is the opposite of sexual desire for girls, an inverted mirror.”
That one, Carole. Wow.
Yes, that one makes so much sense now🤦🏽🤷🏽💯
Thank you for writing this, it’s quite revealing and digs into the depth of the issue of power and abuse. As a child we lived some four houses down the street one of the Churches that had,and then passed on, the notorious priest Father Geoghan. We weren’t part of the church and were a bit too young, but some of our friends and their siblings were not.
The kids were absolutely terrified of him, but we didn’t know why. Only years later did I begin to understand and come to realize that one of our friends’ older brother was abused by him. We witnessed the aftermath even if we didn’t know it at the time.
I can’t even imagine how much worse the situation is for girls and young women and how it’s been normalized behind the scenes. The effects on people and families can be, and is often devastating. We need to stop giving the abuse a pass and turning away from it.
I just re-watched Spotlight tonight … all of it sitting so heavy on my heart.
I was in the Navy on the West Coast when the trial occurred and recognized some of the family names of the victims that testified while listening to NPR. Twenty years and three thousand miles away it reached out to me.
I haven’t watched it. Maybe I should tonight
It’s a very good film, and shows how the abuse of children is almost always systemic.
I couldn't believe the speech Justin Welby made when the abuse of teenage boys by a Church of England priest became public knowledge. His words were " I'm not going to resign over THAT " and he proceeded to make a joke about his head rolling and went on to explain that he was dealing with other more important matters at the time, which prevented him looking into the allegations. It was horrific and like Andrew he believed he had made a good impression ( until someone pointed out how he came across )
I hate that’s it’s almost always reputational or monetary consequences that provoke a change in the response of abusers and enablers, and not empathy for others and moral change.
It's similar to their "Too big to fail" these people are too big to bring down and that our democracy will crumble! The way I feel right now -- let it crumble and start all over again. Keep the good social options for our Society (working class); get rid of ALL LOOPHOLES AND LOBBYISTS 💯🙏🏽
Dear Carole, the DOJ made a diagram of the people closely connected to Epstein and there was this Jean-Luc Brunel, who also committed suicide. I googled this Frenchman and my jaw dropped. He used his modelling agency as a vast sex trafficking ring. The Guardian was the first to reveal his gross business and how he ruined hundreds of girls certain very young (14, 15 or 17). One of his friends, Gerald Marie who worked for Elite and got to marry for a brief time Linda Evangelista, is still alive and was never convicted. I found all the articles written at that time, between the years 2005-2009. The facts started at the end of the eighties. I was literally sick while reading and connecting all the dots. Some models literally sold to Kashoggi for 35.000 to 50.000 dollars an evening. They would get a designer dress for the pass.
It’s not only p…dophily. They are considered as a work force like children in the factories at the beginning of the industrial era. I guess it has to do with the capitalist system where the poor, the young, the minor is just a disposable item. We have not finished seeing the end of this Epstein affair. And now in France, the shit hit the fan too, right in the face of our former culture minister and actual president of the Institute du monde arabe, Jack Lang and his daughter.
Be strong and looking forward to read your next paper.
AYes, in general circles among women, the abuse in the modeling world was widely rumoured. A question: are you preventively self-censuring with the word pedophily? I believe Substack is different from other social media and has not the algorithm and editing functions of those. But I might be wrong. .
I am not very proficient in Substack and I indeed preventively self-censored myself.
Boys and young men were also trafficked. Barrett Pall was in J-L's agency & has been speaking about his experiences in the modeling industry & trafficking on IG
Wow 😳, so eye opening 💯
See Sarah Kendzior
They Knew
Hiding in Plain sight
It’s all in there
So depressing
Also The Franklin Scandal about another trafficking ring in the US that was hushed up. Nick Bryant wrote a book about it and now runs Epstein Justice
Boys Town is another child trafficking scandal from 1988.
Same one - Franklin Scandal trafficked boys from Boys Town
Ok I didn’t know that. Disgraceful
Thank you Carol... a hard read as a bloke. I'm glad I'm not a billionaire and am just a poor environmentalist, who cherishes women and their contributions. Please keep speaking truth to power!!!
The problem is that that poor environmentalists can be paedophiles. Women have no way of knowing, and men turn the other cheek to their friends who they’re not totally sure about - or even know about
💯
Thanks for this article Carole. Yes I'm an "old hag" now but I wasn't always. The headmaster at my school was known to be "a dirty old man." We laughed and cringed at the same time. Being sent to his office had us holding our breath until dismissed as he fumbled with the front of our gym slip whilst berating us for not being tidy enough. He used to hold assembly every morning and stand on the edge of the stage rocking back and forth from toes to heels and thrusting his genitalia out. All the girls would look at each other grimacing and whispering "fall you bastard, fall!" Of course we never complained because, who would believe us? I read 30 years later he had died and actually smiled! As I got older, at the grand old age of 13 I was "wooed" by and older teen, he was 19 and he got me pregnant so I had to leave school and of course could never return because of the shame they left me with. He of course never suffered a day. I was also forced to give the child up for adoption. I married at 17 to a man 7 years older who also treated me like a child. Even all these years later when he converses with me via email because we share child, who's a mother herself, he still manages to put me down like I don't know which way is up! What Epstein did was seen as nothing unusual by those men. Epstein was a true paedophile but the others just used the opportunity to rape the young girls he provided while staying outside of that guilt and shame. They were rich and entitled. I doubt if even now they think of themselves as child abusers. It was their right to buy whatever they want. The fact that Epstein's power came from them is more disgusting. If they hadn't given him control, they might possibly not have become so blatant about it. But, yes SO many men I've met are certainly in that frame of mind at times in their lives. I've seen how they manipulate young girls, I recognise the signs now. I still worry about girls I don't even know being "chatted up" on a park bench as I pass by. I want to say get away from him! The sex crimes and the international financial crimes have been covered up by not just the FBI etc but also by successive governments the world over. It's like a club where membership is a wink and a nod. I doubt that it will ever be eradicated until people are held to account in high and low places. I think of it as the racial discrimination shown to black and brown people, especially in the States. It's built into the fabric of society and when someone like little dick aka trump comes onto the stage to give them licence to be their worst selves they take that advantage. When trump is gone they'll lay low for a while until the next "messiah" arrives to give them rights they believe they deserve. I don't know if it's human nature anymore or just built into the system. Women have been treated as badly by people of all races.
Well done and thanks for perservering. It just gets worse and worse and no doubt more to follow, as the maze of links are all unravelled and eventually joined up. Never mind the two theories - conspirace and a foul up - there is a third it is called the truth and the ghastly people involved need buckets of it.
Wow. Thank you Carole for this really informative and (of course) beautifully written piece. Much to think on here.